SB

Elliot, first of all, congratulations on the publication of your paper! 

 

ER

Thank you so much, Stefan. It's been a very long winded process, but I’m super pleased to finally get it over the line and I’m very excited to get to chat about it with you! I’m hoping it will lead to some positive change. 

 

SB

Its introduction describes the lack of academic literature on mental health in the creative workforce. How did you then come across it and decide to focus on it within your research?

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ER

I’ve always found the interplay between fashion and mental health particularly intriguing. Something about the materialistic obsession, the glamour and the art of it all makes it such an interesting space to psychologically interrogate. Mix that in with reading about the death of Lee McQueen and John Galliano's public breakdown, I found myself asking: what on earth is actually going on here? (TLDR: There’s a lot going on). At LCF, I was very fortunate to be in a position where I could formally begin answering that question. 

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SB

In the first part, you hypothesized that fast fashion contributes to the heightened stress in creative fashion roles, which increases the potential for burnout and depression even more. However, the most famous examples of the struggling creative genius occurred in the time before or in the early beginnings of fast fashion. What’s your take on that? Is it becoming better, or did the focus just change?

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ER

Personally, I would argue that fast fashion started in the 80s when manufacturing processes accelerated due to tech advancements and production was moved across borders in the name of cheap labour. So in that context, fashion's most infamous mental health crises came a few decades after, by which time fast fashion was in full flow. Mental health awareness has increased since then, which makes any display of mental illness very undesirable for brands. It doesn’t necessarily mean designers aren’t struggling, it's just harder to see. I do, however, feel there has been some improvement. Gen Z are more aware of burnout and a lot less tolerable of abuse at work, which provides some hope that things might shift. 

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SB

And is there any valid data on who’s having higher stress rates? Self-employed or employed creatives, and why?

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ER

When it comes to academic research relating to the fashion industry, data is difficult to come by. So, I can’t give you figures. What I can say is, psychologically, whatever category of designer you fall into, it’s arduous. If you escape commerce and become freelance or self-employed, that pressure to work hard and fast is replaced by the pressure to organise everything yourself. Which, ultimately, also makes you work hard and fast. 

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SB

One phrase from your interviews that really stuck with me was “We care about you as our students, but people out there won’t care about who you are”. Based on my experiences, I kind of agree. But what do you think needs to change first: The industry or the education system?

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ER

Firstly, what a horrible thing to be told that your dream industry doesn’t care about upcoming talent. And to your question, I’d describe them as interdependent. The norms of the modern industry are taught to young designers during education, which keeps students in a box and prevents change. And I don’t mean creatively; I think schools are great for creative exploration. I mean they’re confined to thinking there’s a particular way the fashion industry has to work, when that isn’t really the case. I don’t think either the industry or education need to change first. If one shifts, so does the other. But if I was to pick which one I think is most likely to change first, I’d go with education. Grassroots, student-led revolution style. 

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SB

Nevertheless, the fashion industry is a highly commercial field. Do you think design students are actually being prepared for that?

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ER

Definitely, no. One of the designers I interviewed said, “in school you’re taught to create; after school you’re expected to work”, which are two very different activities, both process wise, and emotionally. It's also something I’ve discussed with friends over a Negroni or two; not knowing how to start a brand, not knowing how much to charge for bespoke work, etc. Designers really aren’t taught their worth at school. The cynic in me can’t help but feel students are kept in the dark on purpose. If you equip talented creatives at CSM [Central Saint Martins] and IFM [Institut Français de la Mode] with the business skills to launch brands themselves, then it prevents big fashion from vacuuming up all the talent, gives power to the creatives, and creates new competitor brands, none of which are good for toplines. Just a hunch, though. Sometimes I can be a negative Nancy.

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SB

Another aspect of your interviews that made me think was the “insecurity of people in power positions”. That is such an interesting observation! 

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ER

Yes! I think it is a complex phenomenon, with a lot of moving parts, that spans across the entire fashion workforce. When discussing this, it's crucial we don’t immediately blame individuals. I would instead also see them [senior workers] as victims of a youth-obsessed, adversarial system which may have eroded their character over time. That's where the roots are. The insecurity that comes with a competitive, ageist environment. Fundamentally, we should ask what made our pain-in-the-ass manager a pain-in-the-ass in the first place? And I think nine times out of ten it traces back to unhealthy industry culture. Only a handful were actually born like it. 

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SB

An acceleration of that was definitely the phrases: “If I don’t feel suicidal, it’s not a normal day for me.” and “We’re all suicidal. What’s the issue?”. Is this the romanticization you observed, or do you actually think that these people are at higher risk of becoming suicidal?

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ER

One of the designers I interviewed had these words thrown in their face when they went to their manager for support because they were having suicidal ideations. It’s very ironic to me because that mindset, that normalisation of mental illness, is exactly the issue.

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SB

The paper also tackles the willingness to sacrifice one’s mental health to succeed, reflecting a deep passion for fashion that can even be likened to a form of Stockholm syndrome. How does that work?

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ER

Stockholm syndrome is the psychological term for developing an emotional bond with a captor, and is commonly referred to when discussing abuse. In a fashion context, the individuals with dreams of making it in fashion are the victims, and the industry is the abuser. The pursuit of the fashion dream, and conforming to the norms of the industry to get there, blind us to the harm these norms cause us. 

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SB

But the paper suggest that these burnout structures are not too different from other demanding industries. You mentioned that we can adapt their learnings? 

 

ER

Other high intensity industries experience very similar circumstances, so above everything else, I think we can learn that fashion as an industry isn’t that special. Large fashion companies operate the same way as any other business; they just act differently because they have a glamorous facade to maintain. Much of the support infrastructure in these other industries exists in forums and support groups dedicated to occupational health. So I think there should be more cooperative efforts to organise initiatives like that in fashion. Fashion week watch party and then focus group on workplace stress, anyone? In all seriousness, many of these industries have union representation, which allows the workforce to voice, in solidarity, when they aren’t happy, and gives them opportunities to organise support-based events. Fashion designers don’t have that at the moment and it’s detrimental to industry evolution.

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SB

And do you have any concrete tips for employers on what to implement to maintain employees' mental health? 

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ER

Fostering a sense of camaraderie and support should be the goal. Ideally, beyond what the status quo would say is enough. Some easy ways to do this include mentoring programmes, encouraging dialogue between different age groups, and setting aside substantial time to grow relationships between employees - and I don’t mean just to tick a box for HR. Beyond that, allowing and encouraging employees to take time off for psychological wellbeing or incorporating counselling/therapy programmes into employee benefits are great ideas. Anything that begins breaking down mental health stigma is a starting point. We spend a lot of time at work and it's important we feel psychologically safe there.

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SB

On the other side: what can freelancers or small business owners do to avoid sacrificing their wellbeing?

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ER

The key thing for those who are self-employed is to find community. Luckily, creatives tend to hang out together - birds of a feather and all that - so it makes it easier for them to find like-minded people to share their experiences and struggles with. I can’t emphasise how important this is. Having a support network is vital to almost any creative role, and it was discussed extensively in my research. 

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SB

With The Stitch, we are particularly interested in sustainability. Did you come across any interesting connections between creative wellbeing and sustainable practices?

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ER

I’m a firm believer that a circular economy requires us to prioritise people as well as the planet. In the research I’ve done, it's clear that fast fashion impacts human wellbeing too, so it's logical to assume if the industry slowed down, our designers might actually have space to breathe and look after themselves. Who knows, maybe we’d even get some nicer clothes out of it!

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SB

And last but not least: You mentioned that one big problem is that there is hardly any awareness about that topic in the fashion industry. What’s your tip(s): How can we all raise more awareness and foster actual change?

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ER

Honestly, the awareness is actually there, I’d say. So many of us know fashion has problems with toxicity, overwork, pay, inequality, mental illness, etcetera, but it hardly gets voiced. I think it's time we were open with each other; reflect on your workplace, your feelings, your views of the industry, and speak to people about it. Simple as that. The discussions we have will do the heavy lifting. And remember, this industry is obsessed with innovation, expression and non-conformity, yet many of us just conform to its normalised bullsh*t. It’s only right we start to change that.